MacBook Pro as desktop main computer

[Daniel Cohen]

Currently my main computer is a 2007 20 inch iMac, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 6
GB RAM, running Mavericks.

I also have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, 2.8 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM.

I am thinking of making the MBP my main machine, for desktop use, and am
trying to decide what peripherals I will need, and would welcome advice.
I would probably use my current keyboard and trackball. Obviously I will
need a monitor, most likely a Dell Ultrasharp or an Eizo,23 or 24 inch
at a guess.

What about a dock? The MBP is slightly short of ports, I think.

I plan to replace the 750GB hard drive with an SSD, maybe the Crucial
240GB (I use around 110 to 120GB on my iMac).

Would it be a good idea to increase the RAM to 16GB? I can afford the
extra cost, but think it may well be better spent elsewhere. I haven't
found any significant problems with the 6 GB on my iMac, even though I
have quite a lot of programs open at once.But if I am going to add more
RAM, it seems sensible to do it at the same time as changing to an SSD,
so that both internal changes can be done at once.

And is there any particular software that I should get for the MBP that
I haven't needed on the iMac. One thought is that position and size of
windows on an external display would need to be very different from when
I use the MBP internal display, and something is needed to make changing
easy.

[David Sankey]

Post by Daniel Cohen
Currently my main computer is a 2007 20 inch iMac, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 6
GB RAM, running Mavericks.
I also have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, 2.8 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM.
I am thinking of making the MBP my main machine, for desktop use, and am
trying to decide what peripherals I will need, and would welcome advice.
I would probably use my current keyboard and trackball. Obviously I will
need a monitor, most likely a Dell Ultrasharp or an Eizo,23 or 24 inch
at a guess.
What about a dock? The MBP is slightly short of ports, I think.

Does it have Thunderbolt?

We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable).

Have a few on order now, but none in hand yet.

Post by Daniel Cohen
I plan to replace the 750GB hard drive with an SSD, maybe the Crucial
240GB (I use around 110 to 120GB on my iMac).

You won't regret SSD.

Post by Daniel Cohen
Would it be a good idea to increase the RAM to 16GB? I can afford the
extra cost, but think it may well be better spent elsewhere. I haven't
found any significant problems with the 6 GB on my iMac, even though I
have quite a lot of programs open at once.But if I am going to add more
RAM, it seems sensible to do it at the same time as changing to an SSD,
so that both internal changes can be done at once.
And is there any particular software that I should get for the MBP that
I haven't needed on the iMac. One thought is that position and size of
windows on an external display would need to be very different from when
I use the MBP internal display, and something is needed to make changing
easy.

Kind regards,

Dave

[Daniel Cohen]

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?

Yes

Post by David Sankey
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable)

I was reckoning one or the other. Most recent review I have seen of
docks liked both but preferred the Belkin. What leads you to prefer
Caldigit (reputtion, features, availability, etc_?

[David Empson]

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?

Yes

Post by David Sankey
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable)

I was reckoning one or the other. Most recent review I have seen of
docks liked both but preferred the Belkin. What leads you to prefer
Caldigit (reputtion, features, availability, etc_?

I have the Caldigit dock. The reasons I got it in preference to the
Belkin one were:

1. The reviews generally sounded better.
2. Technical advantage: the USB ports are theoretical faster on the
Caldigit.
3. Price. At the time, the Caldigit one was cheaper than the Belkin one.
I think Belkin has dropped their price in the last few months?
4. HDMI output is handy for plugging in an external display.

The only disadvantage for me is that it is lacking a Firewire port, so I
got a second Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter, which remains
semi-permanently connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the dock.
When I eventually retire my Firewire enclosure or am willing to trust
USB 3, I can free up that port again.

I've had it for about three months now, and it is working fine.

[Lewis]

Post by David Empson

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?

Yes

Post by David Sankey
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable)

I was reckoning one or the other. Most recent review I have seen of
docks liked both but preferred the Belkin. What leads you to prefer
Caldigit (reputtion, features, availability, etc_?

I have the Caldigit dock. The reasons I got it in preference to the

You left out the biggest advantage:

0. It's not a Belkin

Post by David Empson
1. The reviews generally sounded better.
2. Technical advantage: the USB ports are theoretical faster on the
Caldigit.
3. Price. At the time, the Caldigit one was cheaper than the Belkin one.
I think Belkin has dropped their price in the last few months?
4. HDMI output is handy for plugging in an external display.
The only disadvantage for me is that it is lacking a Firewire port, so I
got a second Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter, which remains
semi-permanently connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the dock.
When I eventually retire my Firewire enclosure or am willing to trust
USB 3, I can free up that port again.
I've had it for about three months now, and it is working fine.

I am seriously considering one.

[Daniel Cohen]

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?

Yes

Post by David Sankey
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable)

I was reckoning one or the other. Most recent review I have seen of
docks liked both but preferred the Belkin. What leads you to prefer
Caldigit (reputtion, features, availability, etc_?

I have the Caldigit dock. The reasons I got it in preference to the

0. It's not a Belkin

Is Belkin really that bad? The only item I have had of theirs is a USB
dock, which is fine.

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
1. The reviews generally sounded better.
2. Technical advantage: the USB ports are theoretical faster on the
Caldigit.
3. Price. At the time, the Caldigit one was cheaper than the Belkin one.
I think Belkin has dropped their price in the last few months?

Belkin is currently significantly cheaper.

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
4. HDMI output is handy for plugging in an external display.

Not, I think, relevant for me.

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
The only disadvantage for me is that it is lacking a Firewire port, so I
got a second Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter, which remains
semi-permanently connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the dock.
When I eventually retire my Firewire enclosure or am willing to trust
USB 3, I can free up that port again.

That does strike me as a major disadvantage. Though I do not currently
have any other use for that port. But getting an adapter cable is
another addition to the price.

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
I've had it for about three months now, and it is working fine.

I am seriously considering one.

[David Empson]

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?

Yes

Post by David Sankey
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable)

I was reckoning one or the other. Most recent review I have seen of
docks liked both but preferred the Belkin. What leads you to prefer
Caldigit (reputtion, features, availability, etc_?

I have the Caldigit dock. The reasons I got it in preference to the

0. It's not a Belkin

Is Belkin really that bad? The only item I have had of theirs is a USB
dock, which is fine.

I'd tend to agree with Lewis on that point. I've had more bad
experiences with Belkin products than good ones.

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
1. The reviews generally sounded better.
2. Technical advantage: the USB ports are theoretical faster on the
Caldigit.

Forgot to mention one other point about the USB ports: some comments
seemed to imply that the Belkin's USB ports were seriously limited in
current output, e.g. not charging an iPhone, suggesting it can't even
supply 500 mA to USB 2 peripherals. That would have been a deal killer
for me.

The Caldigit ports do supply 500 mA to USB 2 peripherals, which is slow
but usable for charging an iPhone, but not enough to charge a full size
iPad at a reasonable rate.

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
3. Price. At the time, the Caldigit one was cheaper than the Belkin one.
I think Belkin has dropped their price in the last few months?

Belkin is currently significantly cheaper.

Looks like a US-only discount, since the normal price is shown on the
Apple UK, Austalia and NZ online stores, and the Belkin UK and Australia
online stores. Therefore I still wouldn't be buying a Belkin Thunderbolt
Express if I was considering it now, but that does remove one issue for
those in the US.

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
4. HDMI output is handy for plugging in an external display.

Not, I think, relevant for me.

Post by Lewis

Post by David Empson
The only disadvantage for me is that it is lacking a Firewire port, so I
got a second Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter, which remains
semi-permanently connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the dock.
When I eventually retire my Firewire enclosure or am willing to trust
USB 3, I can free up that port again.

That does strike me as a major disadvantage. Though I do not currently
have any other use for that port. But getting an adapter cable is
another addition to the price.

True, but I have enough Firewire peripherals that the adapter can be
used elsewhere once I stop needing it in conjunction with the dock.

The port being tied up isn't a problem for me as long as I don't need to
plug in another single-port Thunderbolt peripheral, and even then, I
have a second Thunderbolt port on my MacBook Pro.

Incidentally, not mentioned so far in this sub-thread, but I didn't even
consider the Matrox product, since it had neither Firewire nor a second
Thunderbolt port.

The SonnetTech one might have been an option if it was available, but it
is still vapourware; it would also be major overkill for me as I doubt
I'd use the eSATA ports and already have external optical drives and
hard drives.

[nospam]

Post by David Empson

Post by Daniel Cohen

Post by Lewis
0. It's not a Belkin

Is Belkin really that bad? The only item I have had of theirs is a USB
dock, which is fine.

I'd tend to agree with Lewis on that point. I've had more bad
experiences with Belkin products than good ones.

belkin makes crap and used to sell routers with built in spamware that
pushed their own parental control software.

the *router* would modify legitimate tcp traffic and substitute *their*
ad.

[Daniel Cohen]

Post by David Empson

Post by Daniel Cohen
Belkin is currently significantly cheaper.

Looks like a US-only discount, since the normal price is shown on the
Apple UK, Austalia and NZ online stores, and the Belkin UK and Australia
online stores.

Te lower price is at Amazon UK. But, given the comments, I'll maybe go
Caldigit. I had never heard of them until the dock came out.

[Gwynne Harper]

Post by David Sankey
Does it have Thunderbolt?
We see two sensible candidates for Thunderbolt docks, Caldigit or
Belkin, and are plumping unanimously for the Caldigit (and don't forget
to get a Thunderbolt cable).

The Sonnet has advantages for some (albeit not yet available):

<http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html>


Gwynne

[Ian McCall]

Post by Gwynne Harper
<http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html>

I'm reasonably interested in at least looking at the inevitable MBA Retina
when it arrives, and am thinking that dock would be all I need. However the
price is a bit much - wish they made a version without any optical.

Another thing worth noting is that I read somewhere (sorry - on one of my
many feeds, can't remember where) that the Sonnet is delayed specifically
to add Thunderbolt 2 support, which no other dock mentioned will have. All
depends on whether your happy waiting and what price you're looking to pay.


Cheers,
Ian

[Gwynne Harper]

Post by Ian McCall
Another thing worth noting is that I read somewhere (sorry - on one of my
many feeds, can't remember where) that the Sonnet is delayed specifically
to add Thunderbolt 2 support,

It's on their website:

<http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html>

I'm certainly waiting; if nothing else it wiill potentially push the
price of the others down.


Gwynne

[David Empson]

Post by Gwynne Harper

Post by Ian McCall
Another thing worth noting is that I read somewhere (sorry - on one of my
many feeds, can't remember where) that the Sonnet is delayed specifically
to add Thunderbolt 2 support,

<http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html>
I'm certainly waiting; if nothing else it wiill potentially push the
price of the others down.

The SonnetTech one is priced considerably higher than the other ones, so
I doubt it will have any effect on the price of the Belkin, Matrox and
Caldigit ones. It is more likely that they will compete with each other
on price (as already seems to be happening with Belkin, albeit only in
the US).

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Daniel Cohen
Currently my main computer is a 2007 20 inch iMac, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 6
GB RAM, running Mavericks.
I also have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, 2.8 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM.
I am thinking of making the MBP my main machine, for desktop use, and am
trying to decide what peripherals I will need, and would welcome advice.
I would probably use my current keyboard and trackball. Obviously I will
need a monitor, most likely a Dell Ultrasharp or an Eizo,23 or 24 inch
at a guess.
What about a dock? The MBP is slightly short of ports, I think.

The late 2011 MBP has a thunderbolt port,
so you can use a thunderbolt dock.
Only one though, so you lose it
if you plug in a non-thunder monitor,
and don't buy a dock,

Jan

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by Daniel Cohen
Currently my main computer is a 2007 20 inch iMac, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 6
GB RAM, running Mavericks.
I also have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, 2.8 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM.
I am thinking of making the MBP my main machine, for desktop use, and am
trying to decide what peripherals I will need, and would welcome advice.

The main thing is that it's not tricky at all. Connect your external
monitor/keyboard/pointer and go. If there are issues after a week's
familiarisation, consider extra software/tweaks to control those
specific issues.

Post by Daniel Cohen
I would probably use my current keyboard and trackball. Obviously I will
need a monitor, most likely a Dell Ultrasharp or an Eizo,23 or 24 inch
at a guess.

I stick with the Dell 24" Ultrasharps myself.

Post by Daniel Cohen
What about a dock? The MBP is slightly short of ports, I think.

Do you run out? I use an external USB hub for laptop-as-a-desktop, and
handily it's part of my Dell, four ports and a card reader in the
monitor including easy-to-reach ports for occasional use. USB2 only on
mine, but that's fine for me.

Post by Daniel Cohen
I plan to replace the 750GB hard drive with an SSD, maybe the Crucial
240GB (I use around 110 to 120GB on my iMac).

I commend this, I'll never go back from SSDs to HDDs.

Consider a NAS or similar network storage for your bulk stuff and
backups rather than a directly attached external disk, if you don't
already have one.

Post by Daniel Cohen
Would it be a good idea to increase the RAM to 16GB? I can afford the
extra cost, but think it may well be better spent elsewhere. I haven't
found any significant problems with the 6 GB on my iMac, even though I
have quite a lot of programs open at once.But if I am going to add more
RAM, it seems sensible to do it at the same time as changing to an SSD,
so that both internal changes can be done at once.

Shouldn't worry about it unless it proves an issue. 10.9 is kinder
with RAM than 10.7-10.8 anyway.

Post by Daniel Cohen
And is there any particular software that I should get for the MBP that
I haven't needed on the iMac. One thought is that position and size of
windows on an external display would need to be very different from when
I use the MBP internal display, and something is needed to make changing
easy.

OSX is fairly good about doing that by itself, so I'd not worry about
it unless it really proves a problem.

If you intend to use both laptop and external screen together, you'll
need to get the hang of the new options for dual screen use in
Mavericks. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5891
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/10/os-x-10-9/11/#multiple-displays

Cheers - Jaimie

[Tim Streater]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Consider a NAS or similar network storage for your bulk stuff and
backups rather than a directly attached external disk, if you don't
already have one.

Jaimie,

Would you like to elaborate as to why? I used to do TM to an external
drive on SWMBO's Mini, but in the end, when I got a new Mini with SSD,
I switched to using the now-freed-up MiniStack as TM drive, which has
speeded up the backup process and made it more reliable.

I think this is an interesting point.

[Graham J]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Consider a NAS or similar network storage for your bulk stuff and
backups rather than a directly attached external disk, if you don't
already have one.

Jaimie,
Would you like to elaborate as to why? I used to do TM to an external
drive on SWMBO's Mini, but in the end, when I got a new Mini with SSD,
I switched to using the now-freed-up MiniStack as TM drive, which has
speeded up the backup process and made it more reliable.
I think this is an interesting point.

If you have a laptop the last thing you want is wires connecting to it.
This really begs the question of why you would ever want to use a
laptop as a desktop replacement - but so be it.

I've found all USB connectors fail, especially the small ones used for
disks.

I've never had RJ45 plugs fail unless they have been abused - when the
barbs break. But patch cables are readily available in many lengths.

So a NAS disk used for backup can be sited conveniently and connected to
the network permanently. Your laptop connects to the network by
wireless, and can run its backup without needing any connectors; though
mains power might be useful. Of course wireless is not as fast as wired
Ethernet, but for a regular and frequent backup this need not be an issue.

[Daniel Cohen]

Post by Graham J
If you have a laptop the last thing you want is wires connecting to it.
This really begs the question of why you would ever want to use a
laptop as a desktop replacement - but so be it.

For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

[dorayme]

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

True, I should have bought a mini years ago but the laptop does have
that portability advantage (for the occasional travel or visit to a
client or even to drag it over to a lounge room TV to watch a movie in
comfort (the programming on the Mac being better than those built in
the TV).

The other thing I like is that any burglar looking in can be tempted
by the portable sitting there (a mini or a heavy pro just does not cut
it for them), thus allowing me to test my automatic shotgun setup.

[Lewis]

Post by dorayme

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

[dorayme]

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

It is more convenient for me not to these days, now and then I need a
little extra screen space, I just lean over and turn the bright up.
And for when the Blue Tooth Magic Mouse stops working for odd reasons
nothing to to do with batteries, there is the trackpad on the MB!

[nospam]

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

usually that's done to disable the laptop's display.

however, an additional display is always useful.

[dorayme]

Post by nospam

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

usually that's done to disable the laptop's display.

Also I used to use it as a sleep command. It is very good for this,
and opening lid as a wake command too!

Post by nospam
however, an additional display is always useful.

I had wanted when purchasing for it to be very useful in this way. It
proved not to be as useful as I had hoped because the res was too
small and text sizes along with them. Before I operated two large
screens on my PowerPC QS, this 13" Macbook will only run one extra
screen. But I am used to it now and use it for palettes in PS and a
few other things...

[Lewis]

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

Because turning down the screen is not the same as running with it
closed. If you are not using the laptop's screen as a second display,
run it closed.

Post by dorayme
It is more convenient for me not to these days, now and then I need a
little extra screen space, I just lean over and turn the bright up.
And for when the Blue Tooth Magic Mouse stops working for odd reasons
nothing to to do with batteries, there is the trackpad on the MB!

If you are using the second screen, fine. You didn't mention that.

[dorayme]

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

Because turning down the screen is not the same as running with it
closed. If you are not using the laptop's screen as a second display,
run it closed.

Post by dorayme
It is more convenient for me not to these days, now and then I need a
little extra screen space, I just lean over and turn the bright up.
And for when the Blue Tooth Magic Mouse stops working for odd reasons
nothing to to do with batteries, there is the trackpad on the MB!

If you are using the second screen, fine. You didn't mention that.

My words "but now and then need it for excess windows and palettes for
some jobs (it is continuous with the main monitor)." was a mention
along those lines. But wait! It is usenet and it is dorayme!

I tried very hard but in vain to get a straight answer to this years
ago:

What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state? Are they
really on a tiny bit beyond the capacity of the human or ET eye to
tell when the lid is open? What are they doing when the lid is closed?
Are the electrons threateningly close to the pixels when the lid is
open? Do the electrons recede in a cowardly way when the lid is closed?

[unknown]

Post by dorayme
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state?

If the lid is shut the screen is off, there is less work for the video
card because it's not driving the display. On an LCD you see the image
by the pixels changing colour and filter the bright light behind them,
just turned the brightness down on my machine and shone a torch on it,
you can pretty clearly see the image still.

[dorayme]

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state?

If the lid is shut the screen is off, there is less work for the video
card because it's not driving the display. On an LCD you see the image
by the pixels changing colour and filter the bright light behind them,
just turned the brightness down on my machine and shone a torch on it,
you can pretty clearly see the image still.

I see nothing when the MB button to turn down the screen is fully
activated.

It has occurred to me in the past, and you remind me, that one
possible difference is that the video signals are still sent to the
screen by the video card even if you can see nothing when the lid is
up. How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved? Remember, my situation is an
external monitor is on, this fact needs to be distinguished in any
test - is there a process in Activity Monitor or any other way to
verify what is happening to the signals to the native MB screen?

[Tim Streater]

Post by dorayme

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state?

If the lid is shut the screen is off, there is less work for the video
card because it's not driving the display. On an LCD you see the image
by the pixels changing colour and filter the bright light behind them,
just turned the brightness down on my machine and shone a torch on it,
you can pretty clearly see the image still.

I see nothing when the MB button to turn down the screen is fully
activated.
It has occurred to me in the past, and you remind me, that one
possible difference is that the video signals are still sent to the
screen by the video card even if you can see nothing when the lid is
up. How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved? Remember, my situation is an
external monitor is on, this fact needs to be distinguished in any
test - is there a process in Activity Monitor or any other way to
verify what is happening to the signals to the native MB screen?

What happens if you bring up the Displays panel in System Prefs? In the
shut case you should only see one monitor offered; in the open case you
should see two.

It's an open and shut case.

[dorayme]

...

Post by Tim Streater

... one
possible difference is that the video signals are still sent to the
screen by the video card even if you can see nothing when the lid is
up. How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved? Remember, my situation is an
external monitor is on, this fact needs to be distinguished in any
test - is there a process in Activity Monitor or any other way to
verify what is happening to the signals to the native MB screen?

What happens if you bring up the Displays panel in System Prefs? In the
shut case you should only see one monitor offered; in the open case you
should see two.
It's an open and shut case.

At the moment, when it is shut, no monitor is offered. You can see
nothing on either of my screens. It goes to sleep on lid close and it
will not wake up until the lid is opened, keyboard actions to no
avail.

I even tried yelling for it to wake up, it just would not! But then,
it is Sunday morning. And then it dawned on me, last night was Mardi
Gras in Sydney, the dear little thing must have been out partying
while I contented myself with watching Drive (what a nasty little
ending!) on TV. My unassuming little MB 13" is gay! Well, well!

I even tried to make myself very very thin to squeeze in under the
closed lid to see what is happening but it is too early for
acrobatics.

I will have to think how to get it into clamshell mode again. Even I
have not woken completely, notwithstanding the most sober of Sat'day
nites.

But if it does go into clamshell and it does show only one screen (I
have an icon about these matters on my menu bar), then it does
*suggest* signals are not going to the MB screen, at least that there
is a difference between a mere black MB screen in an open lid and one
in a closed lid.

Clamshell, just btw, is quite what I don't want in practice for
reasons given before.

[Warren Oates]

Post by dorayme
I even tried yelling for it to wake up, it just would not! But then,
it is Sunday morning. And then it dawned on me, last night was Mardi
Gras in Sydney, the dear little thing must have been out partying
while I contented myself with watching Drive (what a nasty little
ending!) on TV. My unassuming little MB 13" is gay! Well, well!

I know that the time is out of joint in Australia, but mardi gras "fat
tuesday" doesn't happen on this side of the big water until the day
after tomorrow. Or do y'all just start early?

http://www.mardigrasneworleans.com/mardi-gras-2014.html

[unknown]

Post by dorayme

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state?

If the lid is shut the screen is off, there is less work for the video
card because it's not driving the display. On an LCD you see the image
by the pixels changing colour and filter the bright light behind them,
just turned the brightness down on my machine and shone a torch on it,
you can pretty clearly see the image still.

I see nothing when the MB button to turn down the screen is fully
activated.

I don't either. Until I shine another very bright light source on it.

Post by dorayme
It has occurred to me in the past, and you remind me, that one
possible difference is that the video signals are still sent to the
screen by the video card even if you can see nothing when the lid is
up. How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved?

I would think the ineteral display isn't in the displays preferences
anymore with the lid shut.

[dorayme]

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state?

If the lid is shut the screen is off, there is less work for the video
card because it's not driving the display. On an LCD you see the image
by the pixels changing colour and filter the bright light behind them,
just turned the brightness down on my machine and shone a torch on it,
you can pretty clearly see the image still.

I see nothing when the MB button to turn down the screen is fully
activated.

I don't either. Until I shine another very bright light source on it.

I used a bright torch too on your suggestion, the reason I saw nothing
was I had nothing there! Slaps head! I dragged this post there just
now and yes you are right!

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
It has occurred to me in the past, and you remind me, that one
possible difference is that the video signals are still sent to the
screen by the video card even if you can see nothing when the lid is
up. How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved?

I would think the ineteral display isn't in the displays preferences
anymore with the lid shut.

OK, I believe you (and Tim). I restarted and now I can wake the
computer when the lid is down and can see the external monitor and you
are right.

Now the only reason (it has influenced me in the past) apart from that
I sometimes do use the MB screen as a second one, there might be to
keep the lid open is helps the MB to keep a little cooler (heat rising
through the keys) ... but then with the lid closed there would be less
heat generated from the video processing... Can one over-think these
things? <g>

[Daniel Cohen]

Post by dorayme
How can one confirm that this does or does not happen when the lid
is up? Or down? How is it proved?

You get a very small thin person to sit inside the MacNook while the lid
is being closed.

Someone related to the person who sits inside your fridge to confirm
that the light goes out when the door is closed.

[Lewis]

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Daniel Cohen
For me, the main reason for using a laptop as a desktop replacement is
that my laptop is newer and more powerful than my current desktop. I
don't need to move it very often, as I take the laptop out of the house
only when going on holiday, and I have not got into using the laptop in
my sitting-room.

I've been using my MB as a main for years now, with a USB hub, a wired
Apple keyboard, a Magic Mouse, and a 26" external monitor. I mostly
turn the brightness of the MB screen to zero (it is still almost brand
new, having gotten not that much use!) but now and then need it for
excess windows and palettes for some jobs (it is continuous with the
main monitor).

If you have an external monitor and a keyboard, run the laptop closed.

Why? To stop dust? Actually, I sometimes do. I used to a lot (it is
called "clamshell" mode).

Because turning down the screen is not the same as running with it
closed. If you are not using the laptop's screen as a second display,
run it closed.

Post by dorayme
It is more convenient for me not to these days, now and then I need a
little extra screen space, I just lean over and turn the bright up.
And for when the Blue Tooth Magic Mouse stops working for odd reasons
nothing to to do with batteries, there is the trackpad on the MB!

If you are using the second screen, fine. You didn't mention that.

My words "but now and then need it for excess windows and palettes for
some jobs (it is continuous with the main monitor)." was a mention
along those lines. But wait! It is usenet and it is dorayme!
I tried very hard but in vain to get a straight answer to this years
What is the difference regarding the screen, the pixels, between
"running" with the screen turned to zero bright on the MB and running
with the lid closed? Are the pixels in a different state? Are they
really on a tiny bit beyond the capacity of the human or ET eye to
tell when the lid is open? What are they doing when the lid is closed?
Are the electrons threateningly close to the pixels when the lid is
open? Do the electrons recede in a cowardly way when the lid is closed?

It's possible this has changed, it used to be that turning the
brightness down was not the same as running with the display off.

It would not surprise me if this has changed in Apple's improvements to
power draw, but I don't know for sure. I do know for sure that on the
old macbook the screen still ran when it was open (and even still
updated) and it was only the backlight that was off.

[dorayme]

Post by Lewis
It's possible this has changed, it used to be that turning the
brightness down was not the same as running with the display off.
It would not surprise me if this has changed in Apple's improvements to
power draw, but I don't know for sure. I do know for sure that on the
old macbook the screen still ran when it was open (and even still
updated) and it was only the backlight that was off.

No, you were right first time. I have had a play with torches and
things as you can see in the thread.

There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).

Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

[unknown]

Post by dorayme
There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

I've no idea about 'work done', I suspect it doesn't make a lot of
difference myself. I guess more work = more power so if you really
wanted you could make yourself a standard test and see how long your
battery lasts in each situation e.g. turn off all energy saving settings
and play a video.

In terms of heat you can use something like SMCFancontrol to set your
fan speed to a constant lvel and perform some tests to see what the heat
levels are like. But really, I'd think at most you'd probably just try
it with the lid closed, I'm sure you'd notice the additional fan noise
if there was significnat difference and you could still use a utility to
keep an eye on it.

[dorayme]

Post by unknown

Post by dorayme
There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

I've no idea about 'work done', I suspect it doesn't make a lot of
difference myself. I guess more work = more power so if you really
wanted you could make yourself a standard test and see how long your
battery lasts in each situation e.g. turn off all energy saving settings
and play a video.
In terms of heat you can use something like SMCFancontrol to set your
fan speed to a constant lvel and perform some tests to see what the heat
levels are like. But really, I'd think at most you'd probably just try
it with the lid closed, I'm sure you'd notice the additional fan noise
if there was significnat difference and you could still use a utility to
keep an eye on it.

I can hardly ever hear my MB. It has always been so beautifully quiet.
It used to scare me because I was thinking maybe it is dead but
somehow acting creepily (like ghosts do, you know...).

Somehow, I can't see myself trying to test all this stuff, I will wait
till someone looks up all the engineering specs and just works it out.
Or doesn't! I too think it likely to be of little significance.

[ray]

Post by dorayme
I can hardly ever hear my MB. It has always been so beautifully quiet.
It used to scare me because I was thinking maybe it is dead but
somehow acting creepily (like ghosts do, you know...).
Somehow, I can't see myself trying to test all this stuff, I will wait
till someone looks up all the engineering specs and just works it out.
Or doesn't! I too think it likely to be of little significance.

Just to add my two cents worth.
I use a MBP retina as a desktop machine, hooked up to two Dell monitors. I
pull the lid down until the internal screen goes off and leave it,
partially open. That way I can still hear the internal speakers and use the
microphone for Skype etc. No issues with heat and the Dells have additional
USB ports which is useful.
it works.

[Elliott Roper]

In article

Post by ray

Post by dorayme
I can hardly ever hear my MB. It has always been so beautifully quiet.
It used to scare me because I was thinking maybe it is dead but
somehow acting creepily (like ghosts do, you know...).
Somehow, I can't see myself trying to test all this stuff, I will wait
till someone looks up all the engineering specs and just works it out.
Or doesn't! I too think it likely to be of little significance.

Just to add my two cents worth.
I use a MBP retina as a desktop machine, hooked up to two Dell monitors. I
pull the lid down until the internal screen goes off and leave it,
partially open. That way I can still hear the internal speakers and use the
microphone for Skype etc. No issues with heat and the Dells have additional
USB ports which is useful.
it works.

How can you bear to look at another monitor after using a retina
screen? <grin> I run mine with one extra 20" Cinema display, but it is
only used for screen sharing with the old Mac Pro I nicked it from, and
for manuals. Or anything else that does not need much interaction or
screen quality. I have gone nuts on full screen and spaces. I'm
currently running 20 spaces between the two monitors. Mavericks has
made spaces on more than one screen vaguely approach sanity. I do
everything else on the Retina screen, with the displays set to the
tiniest text flavour of "more space". All that real estate and only two
screens on my desk. What's not to like?

[Lewis]

Post by Elliott Roper
In article

Post by ray

Post by dorayme
I can hardly ever hear my MB. It has always been so beautifully quiet.
It used to scare me because I was thinking maybe it is dead but
somehow acting creepily (like ghosts do, you know...).
Somehow, I can't see myself trying to test all this stuff, I will wait
till someone looks up all the engineering specs and just works it out.
Or doesn't! I too think it likely to be of little significance.

Just to add my two cents worth.
I use a MBP retina as a desktop machine, hooked up to two Dell monitors. I
pull the lid down until the internal screen goes off and leave it,
partially open. That way I can still hear the internal speakers and use the
microphone for Skype etc. No issues with heat and the Dells have additional
USB ports which is useful.
it works.

I'm currently running 20 spaces between the two monitors. Mavericks
has made spaces on more than one screen vaguely approach sanity. I do
everything else on the Retina screen, with the displays set to the
tiniest text flavour of "more space". All that real estate and only
two screens on my desk. What's not to like?

I use FSM and many spaces on my MBP heavily as well, but less on my iMac
which has a massive screen (27"), although even there I will use iTunes
in FSM.

The only app that I think really falls down in FSM is Mail.app because
of how it deals with the compose/reply window.

One of my favorite apps in FSM is actually terminal. I crank up the font
size a bit (Menlo 18pt which on my 13" gives me 115 character width) and
set the screen to the "Pro" theme and I feel right at home.

[Lewis]

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
It's possible this has changed, it used to be that turning the
brightness down was not the same as running with the display off.
It would not surprise me if this has changed in Apple's improvements to
power draw, but I don't know for sure. I do know for sure that on the
old macbook the screen still ran when it was open (and even still
updated) and it was only the backlight that was off.

No, you were right first time. I have had a play with torches and
things as you can see in the thread.
There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).

For the video card *no* work is being saved. The largest screen-related
power draw is the backlight, probably even on the newest LED computers,
but the video card has to do the same work to update a screen with a
backlight as without.

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

[Elliott Roper]

<snip>

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Err, First Law.
Law 1. You only get out what you put in.
Law 2. You don't even get that much.

Also Power in NOT heat. Power is energy per unit time. Heat is energy.

Apart from the pedantry failure, you are right. If it gets too hot with
the lid shut and the fans start revving then open the lid.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Elliott Roper
<snip>

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Err, First Law.
Law 1. You only get out what you put in.
Law 2. You don't even get that much.

Cue Flanders and Swann.

[dorayme]

Post by Elliott Roper
If it gets too hot with
the lid shut and the fans start revving then open the lid.

All very well if you can rely on that when it sleeps it does not wake
up when you are away from the machine. And it's not easy to hear a fan
in some MBs.

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by dorayme

Post by Elliott Roper
If it gets too hot with
the lid shut and the fans start revving then open the lid.

All very well if you can rely on that when it sleeps it does not wake
up when you are away from the machine. And it's not easy to hear a fan
in some MBs.

Any Mac that will work with the lid close is okay to run with the lid
closed - as long as the cooling pathways are working, anyhoo. It's
part of the design. I believe all Intel 'Books fall into that class.

(Maybe PPCs as well, but I only joined in just as the changeover
happened!)

Cheers - Jaimie

[dorayme]

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
It's possible this has changed, it used to be that turning the
brightness down was not the same as running with the display off.
It would not surprise me if this has changed in Apple's improvements to
power draw, but I don't know for sure. I do know for sure that on the
old macbook the screen still ran when it was open (and even still
updated) and it was only the backlight that was off.

No, you were right first time. I have had a play with torches and
things as you can see in the thread.
There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).

For the video card *no* work is being saved.

If the video card is not operating to send signals then it is doing no
work. The idea is that following your original advice would save work,
this work being a thermodynamical concept. Perhaps you are saying that
the video card does not know whether the lid is up or down, or put it
literally, it does the same thing either way.

Post by Lewis
The largest screen-related
power draw is the backlight, probably even on the newest LED computers,
but the video card has to do the same work to update a screen with a
backlight as without.

Are you saying the backlight is full bright even when the bright is
turned to maximum low with the lid up?

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Is that a sort of yes or a sort of a no or perhaps we have just got
some sort of misunderstanding here?

[Lewis]

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
It's possible this has changed, it used to be that turning the
brightness down was not the same as running with the display off.
It would not surprise me if this has changed in Apple's improvements to
power draw, but I don't know for sure. I do know for sure that on the
old macbook the screen still ran when it was open (and even still
updated) and it was only the backlight that was off.

No, you were right first time. I have had a play with torches and
things as you can see in the thread.
There are unclear quantitative matters though. Let's suppose there was
a measure for the work that is done or not done by the video card (and
any associated CPU work etc), how much work is being saved when it is
off as opposed to it being on but there being nothing at all on the MB
screen (no text, no icons, no directory windows, no pics, no movies,
nothing).

For the video card *no* work is being saved.

If the video card is not operating to send signals then it is doing no
work. The idea is that following your original advice would save work,
this work being a thermodynamical concept. Perhaps you are saying that
the video card does not know whether the lid is up or down, or put it
literally, it does the same thing either way.

If the lid is closed, then the GPU doesn't have to work. If the screen
brightness is turned down, the GPU still has to do the same work as if
the display is on.

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis
The largest screen-related
power draw is the backlight, probably even on the newest LED computers,
but the video card has to do the same work to update a screen with a
backlight as without.

Are you saying the backlight is full bright even when the bright is
turned to maximum low with the lid up?

No, I am saying regardless of the backlight's status, the GPU still has
to draw on the screen.

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Is that a sort of yes or a sort of a no or perhaps we have just got
some sort of misunderstanding here?

I don't know how to be clearer. More work = more heat. If you want to
reduce the heat the laptop is generating, close the lid so that screen
is off.

[Barry Margolin]

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Is that a sort of yes or a sort of a no or perhaps we have just got
some sort of misunderstanding here?

I don't know how to be clearer. More work = more heat. If you want to
reduce the heat the laptop is generating, close the lid so that screen
is off.

But when the lid is closed, the heat that's generated is trapped. I
think the fan has to run more often to cool it off, since it doesn't get
radiated by itself.

At my last job they gave us a laptop as our main computer so we could
take it home, take it to meetings, etc. I had plenty of room on my desk
so I used it with an extenal monitor and the screen open to get more
screen space.

At my current job, where I work from home, I recently switched from an
iMac to my MBP so that I would be able to take everything with me when I
took it on trips. My desk at home is too small to have both open, so
keep the laptop closed and the montor is sitting on top of it.

The thing I've noticed is that the laptop fan runs heavily pretty often.
Any time I watch a video, the fan almost drowns out the sound. When TM
runs, whoosh!

[Lewis]

Post by Barry Margolin

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme

Post by Lewis

Post by dorayme
Is more heat generated? Would the lid being opened offset the heat
generated (the little bit escaping through gaps in the keyboard?).

Power is heat, the less power you use, the less heat you generate. 2nd
law of thermodynamics and all that.

Is that a sort of yes or a sort of a no or perhaps we have just got
some sort of misunderstanding here?

I don't know how to be clearer. More work = more heat. If you want to
reduce the heat the laptop is generating, close the lid so that screen
is off.

But when the lid is closed, the heat that's generated is trapped. I
think the fan has to run more often to cool it off, since it doesn't get
radiated by itself.

Not on mine. The venting is at the back of the computer.

Post by Barry Margolin
At my last job they gave us a laptop as our main computer so we could
take it home, take it to meetings, etc. I had plenty of room on my desk
so I used it with an extenal monitor and the screen open to get more
screen space.
At my current job, where I work from home, I recently switched from an
iMac to my MBP so that I would be able to take everything with me when I
took it on trips. My desk at home is too small to have both open, so
keep the laptop closed and the montor is sitting on top of it.
The thing I've noticed is that the laptop fan runs heavily pretty often.
Any time I watch a video, the fan almost drowns out the sound. When TM
runs, whoosh!

Watching videos certainly will cause the computer to work harder. On my
2009 MBP I sometimes connect it to my TV and use it as a plex server.
When I do this I put the computer up vertically so that the vents are at
the top. I can sometimes hear the fans if the audio on the TV is very
low, but not very often.

The 2012 MBP is dead quiet almost all the time.

[dorayme]

...

Post by Lewis
Watching videos certainly will cause the computer to work harder. On my
2009 MBP I sometimes connect it to my TV and use it as a plex server.
When I do this I put the computer up vertically so that the vents are at
the top. I can sometimes hear the fans if the audio on the TV is very
low, but not very often.
The 2012 MBP is dead quiet almost all the time.

I have to to listen to my 2010 13" MB very carefully and ear near it
to hear it ever.

[nospam]

Post by dorayme
I have to to listen to my 2010 13" MB very carefully and ear near it
to hear it ever.

what is it telling you???

[dorayme]

Post by nospam

Post by dorayme
I have to to listen to my 2010 13" MB very carefully and ear near it
to hear it ever.

what is it telling you???

Very little, it is the weak silent type.

[Fred Moore]

Post by Graham J

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Consider a NAS or similar network storage for your bulk stuff and
backups rather than a directly attached external disk, if you don't
already have one.

Jaimie,
Would you like to elaborate as to why? I used to do TM to an external
drive on SWMBO's Mini, but in the end, when I got a new Mini with SSD,
I switched to using the now-freed-up MiniStack as TM drive, which has
speeded up the backup process and made it more reliable.
I think this is an interesting point.

If you have a laptop the last thing you want is wires connecting to it.
This really begs the question of why you would ever want to use a
laptop as a desktop replacement - but so be it.
I've found all USB connectors fail, especially the small ones used for
disks.

IIRC there was a discussion of this on Macintouch a while back.
Evidently the industry standard spec for USB plug/port durability is 300
plug/unplug cycles. This seems ridiculously low and Apple's ports may be
better, but you have been warned.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Graham J

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Consider a NAS or similar network storage for your bulk stuff and
backups rather than a directly attached external disk, if you don't
already have one.

Jaimie,
Would you like to elaborate as to why? I used to do TM to an external
drive on SWMBO's Mini, but in the end, when I got a new Mini with SSD,
I switched to using the now-freed-up MiniStack as TM drive, which has
speeded up the backup process and made it more reliable.
I think this is an interesting point.

If you have a laptop the last thing you want is wires connecting to it.
This really begs the question of why you would ever want to use a
laptop as a desktop replacement - but so be it.
I've found all USB connectors fail, especially the small ones used for
disks.

OK. In my case I have a Mini and connect using Firewire rather than USB.

[Axel Hammerschmidt]

X-posted: comp.sys.mac.portables and uk.comp.sys.mac
Followup-To: uk.comp.sys.mac

Post by Daniel Cohen
Currently my main computer is a 2007 20 inch iMac, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 6
GB RAM, running Mavericks.
I also have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, 2.8 GHz i7, 8 GB RAM.
I am thinking of making the MBP my main machine, for desktop use, and am
trying to decide what peripherals I will need, and would welcome advice.
I would probably use my current keyboard and trackball. Obviously I will
need a monitor, most likely a Dell Ultrasharp or an Eizo,23 or 24 inch
at a guess.

Down side; you will quickly wear out the batteries when it's always
plugged into the AC adapter power supply.

Read more on "Closed Lid Mode" her:

<http://lowendmac.com/2011/13-macbook-pro-late-2011>

"To used closed lid mode, your 'Book must be plugged into the AC adapter
... ".