A 13.3" MacBook Pro (MBP) gets stuck during its boot ups and tests...

[Ant]

Hi.

As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): Loading Image... ... It never gets to
the login screen.

Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in Loading Image...
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?

My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.

Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Thank you in advance. :)
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Ant]

According to https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204156 web page, "... Mac
is reading files from the OS X System folder." Maybe a data corruption
on HDD (yes, he has a Time Machine backup before he left home).

Post by Ant
Hi.
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(
Thank you in advance. :)

--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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[Ant]

I just got the verbose text log from my client:
Loading Image... but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Post by Ant
According to https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204156 web page, "... Mac
is reading files from the OS X System folder." Maybe a data corruption
on HDD (yes, he has a Time Machine backup before he left home).

Post by Ant
Hi.
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(
Thank you in advance. :)

--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[JF Mezei]

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

Find yourself a "SMART Utility", install it on recovery partition and
run it to see what the hard disk is telling you.

Your .jpg isn't really clear enough to see the lines above the IO error.
What you want to find out is whether the IO error always happens in the
same location or in different locations.

At same location MAY point to just a bew bad sectors that hold a file
needed during boot. If the error happens at different locations, it may
point to a flakey disk controller (or connector) that fails now and then.


What your picture does not say is whether the machine pauses (and for
how many seconds) before the IO error message is issued. Generally,
disks tend to retry reading data before returning an error, this causes
system to wait for the IO to complete.

Putting ear or stethoscope to the machine could also give hints. Some
disks starts to make weird noises when they have difficulty reading
(they reposition/recalibrate arm etc).

[JF Mezei]

I am not fully knowledgeable on this but in Disk Utility, try selecting
the actual disk device, not the HFS volume when you do a repair/verify.

There are utilities that can do full disk tests at low level (block by
block), as opposed to verifying file system integrity.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by JF Mezei
I am not fully knowledgeable on this but in Disk Utility, try selecting
the actual disk device, not the HFS volume when you do a repair/verify.

It's a better idea to run the Repair Disk before first running a Verify
Disk, since the repair feature may attempt to alter the disk before you
have had a chance to figure out what is wrong with it.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by JF Mezei
I am not fully knowledgeable on this but in Disk Utility, try selecting
the actual disk device, not the HFS volume when you do a repair/verify.

It's a better idea to run the Repair Disk before first running a Verify
Disk

Oops. Dyslexia strikes?

What I really meant was that you should VERIFY first without repairing
so that you can see what problems are encountered without Disk Utility
trying to correct them (which modifies the disk).

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger
What I really meant was that you should VERIFY first without repairing
so that you can see what problems are encountered without Disk Utility
trying to correct them (which modifies the disk).

Hello again. I finally got the broken MBP to deal with.

I did a quick test. During Apple Hardware Test, it showed 1 minute and
50 seconds left this time. This never changes. It is always stuck at
this time in phase 1. I noticed the trackpad mouse cursor was very
lagged by about three seconds seconds. I don't think that is normal.
Also, I was unable to stop the test with the laggy trackpad and shortcut
keys (command/Apple+T). I had do a manual power button method to
shutdown and reboot.

I booted up to the local Mac OS X Recovery and ran two verifications and
a repair due to problems and failures. You can see
http://imgur.com/a/UytFX for three iPhone 6's camera shots for those
results. Speaking of taking pictures, can Mac OS X's Recovery do screen
shots to an external USB drive or so?

So, I did a Time Machine restore from an external USB2 HDD. It already
erased the 750.16 GB HDD, and it is currently taking about a couple
hours to complete. So far, no problems with over 18.1% done. I hope this
works since this is all new to me with Macs. :/
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
What I really meant was that you should VERIFY first without repairing
so that you can see what problems are encountered without Disk Utility
trying to correct them (which modifies the disk).

Hello again. I finally got the broken MBP to deal with.
I did a quick test. During Apple Hardware Test, it showed 1 minute and
50 seconds left this time. This never changes. It is always stuck at
this time in phase 1. I noticed the trackpad mouse cursor was very
lagged by about three seconds seconds. I don't think that is normal.
Also, I was unable to stop the test with the laggy trackpad and shortcut
keys (command/Apple+T). I had do a manual power button method to
shutdown and reboot.
I booted up to the local Mac OS X Recovery and ran two verifications and
a repair due to problems and failures. You can see
http://imgur.com/a/UytFX for three iPhone 6's camera shots for those
results.

Whatever happened, it wasn't good. It's possible he bumped or dropped
the computer while the disk was reading or writing, which could have
resulted in damaging portions of the disk. Erasing will map out any bad
sectors as long as the sectors aren't in critical areas used for
boot & directory management.

Post by Ant
Speaking of taking pictures, can Mac OS X's Recovery do screen
shots to an external USB drive or so?

Not that I know of, no.

Post by Ant
So, I did a Time Machine restore from an external USB2 HDD. It already
erased the 750.16 GB HDD, and it is currently taking about a couple
hours to complete. So far, no problems with over 18.1% done. I hope this
works since this is all new to me with Macs. :/

I'd be sure to run another Verify Disk after you've restored everything
to ensure no errors are reported. And be sure he backs it up regularly
afterwards.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
I did a quick test. During Apple Hardware Test, it showed 1 minute and
50 seconds left this time. This never changes. It is always stuck at
this time in phase 1. I noticed the trackpad mouse cursor was very
lagged by about three seconds seconds. I don't think that is normal.
Also, I was unable to stop the test with the laggy trackpad and shortcut
keys (command/Apple+T). I had do a manual power button method to
shutdown and reboot.

Weird is that I restored the Time Machine backup perfectly. I reran this
test, but it was the same even though the backup was restored fully and
Disk Utility found no problems before and after logging back into the
restored HDD.

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
I booted up to the local Mac OS X Recovery and ran two verifications and
a repair due to problems and failures. You can see
http://imgur.com/a/UytFX for three iPhone 6's camera shots for those
results.

Whatever happened, it wasn't good. It's possible he bumped or dropped
the computer while the disk was reading or writing, which could have
resulted in damaging portions of the disk. Erasing will map out any bad
sectors as long as the sectors aren't in critical areas used for
boot & directory management.

It might be worse. Stay tuned... I'm going to start a new thread since I
need SMART experts to read the logs.

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Speaking of taking pictures, can Mac OS X's Recovery do screen
shots to an external USB drive or so?

Not that I know of, no.

Bummer. :(

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
So, I did a Time Machine restore from an external USB2 HDD. It already
erased the 750.16 GB HDD, and it is currently taking about a couple
hours to complete. So far, no problems with over 18.1% done. I hope this
works since this is all new to me with Macs. :/

I'd be sure to run another Verify Disk after you've restored everything
to ensure no errors are reported. And be sure he backs it up regularly
afterwards.

I already did. No errors, but SMART is a different story. Backups are
often before the incident. Not sure if I want to keep backing up on
this "unstable" HDD if it is dying.
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
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[Ant]

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

He doesn't have it remotely and doesn't return until next week. :(

Post by JF Mezei
Find yourself a "SMART Utility", install it on recovery partition and
run it to see what the hard disk is telling you.

Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Post by JF Mezei
Your .jpg isn't really clear enough to see the lines above the IO error.
What you want to find out is whether the IO error always happens in the
same location or in different locations.

Zoom in like 150% and it is easier to read. Maybe that will help?

Post by JF Mezei
At same location MAY point to just a bew bad sectors that hold a file
needed during boot. If the error happens at different locations, it may
point to a flakey disk controller (or connector) that fails now and then.
What your picture does not say is whether the machine pauses (and for
how many seconds) before the IO error message is issued. Generally,
disks tend to retry reading data before returning an error, this causes
system to wait for the IO to complete.
Putting ear or stethoscope to the machine could also give hints. Some
disks starts to make weird noises when they have difficulty reading
(they reposition/recalibrate arm etc).

I will ask him to listen to it.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Ant]

...

Post by Ant

Post by JF Mezei
Putting ear or stethoscope to the machine could also give hints. Some
disks starts to make weird noises when they have difficulty reading
(they reposition/recalibrate arm etc).

I will ask him to listen to it.

He said he didn't hear anything with his ears next to his MBP.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Lewis]

Post by Ant

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

He doesn't have it remotely and doesn't return until next week. :(

JF hasn't a clue. Boot from recovery. Try Disk Utility on the disk. If
that fails, go directly to an Apple Store.

[Ant]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

He doesn't have it remotely and doesn't return until next week. :(

JF hasn't a clue. Boot from recovery. Try Disk Utility on the disk. If
that fails, go directly to an Apple Store.

OK, we'll try its DU soon (before my client goes to sleep)!
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

He doesn't have it remotely and doesn't return until next week. :(

JF hasn't a clue. Boot from recovery. Try Disk Utility on the disk. If
that fails, go directly to an Apple Store.

OK, we'll try its DU soon (before my client goes to sleep)!

Don't do the "Repair Disk". Just do "Verify Disk". That way Disk Utility
won't attempt to modify the disk! Verify Disk will tell you if anything
is wrong with the disk without modifying it. You can copy and paste the
output into a post here for help diagnosing the issue.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

Boot from another disk (or DVD if you still have them). Run disk utility
and "Verify" (or Repair).

He doesn't have it remotely and doesn't return until next week. :(

JF hasn't a clue. Boot from recovery. Try Disk Utility on the disk. If
that fails, go directly to an Apple Store.

OK, we'll try its DU soon (before my client goes to sleep)!

Don't do the "Repair Disk". Just do "Verify Disk". That way Disk Utility
won't attempt to modify the disk! Verify Disk will tell you if anything
is wrong with the disk without modifying it. You can copy and paste the
output into a post here for help diagnosing the issue.

OK. :)
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Good. We'll see what happens.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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[Fred Moore]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

Remember in this case we are talking about someone who isn't very
technically savvy. Disk Utility should be enough for this particular
purpose.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

Remember in this case we are talking about someone who isn't very
technically savvy. Disk Utility should be enough for this particular
purpose.

Yep. He is not technical savvy that he got scared of Disk Utility and
told me to look at it after he returns home. [sighs] :(
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Ant]

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

How is it compared to the free and opensourced smartmontools
(https://www.smartmontools.org/)?
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Michael Vilain]

Post by Ant

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

How is it compared to the free and opensourced smartmontools
(https://www.smartmontools.org/)?

It has features that isn't in the opensource app. You can compare them
and offer both to your client. I use SmarReporter which keeps a history
of when it's checked and supportss I/O tracking, RAID, and disk space
independent of SMART disk capabilities. Several of my disks don't
support SMART. If his disk doesn't having a SMART monitor will do squat.

[Ant]

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

How is it compared to the free and opensourced smartmontools
(https://www.smartmontools.org/)?

It has features that isn't in the opensource app. You can compare them
and offer both to your client. I use SmarReporter which keeps a history
of when it's checked and supportss I/O tracking, RAID, and disk space
independent of SMART disk capabilities. Several of my disks don't
support SMART. If his disk doesn't having a SMART monitor will do squat.

Can I run this (and any others') apps in recovery boot?
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Michael Vilain]

Post by Ant

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

How is it compared to the free and opensourced smartmontools
(https://www.smartmontools.org/)?

It has features that isn't in the opensource app. You can compare them
and offer both to your client. I use SmarReporter which keeps a history
of when it's checked and supportss I/O tracking, RAID, and disk space
independent of SMART disk capabilities. Several of my disks don't
support SMART. If his disk doesn't having a SMART monitor will do squat.

Can I run this (and any others') apps in recovery boot?

Not to my knowledge. There's very little you can do in boot recovery.

I created a recovery volume on a bootable USB stick. It has tools on it
like for Disk Recovery, Disk Utility, log analysis, and to run SMART
reports (I used the open source tool for that). It can read the SMART
info on disks that support it, but as I said my Apple HD that came with
my system doesn't support SMART so it's of no help if there are problems
with it.

[Ant]

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant

Post by Fred Moore

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Doesn't Disk Utility have a SMART utility?

Yes, and when you run it and select the startup volume, it will report
SMART failures on the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

Certainly true. However, my experience has shown that Apple's standards
for passing SMART are very low. I've had _numerous_ occasions where Disk
Utility has said the disk passes SMART, but SMART Utility.app
<http://www.volitans-software.com> has found soon-to-be-fatal errors
(increasing numbers of bad sectors, etc.). SMART Utility.app is one of
the best in the business. Well worth having in your arsenal of
diagnostic tools.

How is it compared to the free and opensourced smartmontools
(https://www.smartmontools.org/)?

It has features that isn't in the opensource app. You can compare them
and offer both to your client. I use SmarReporter which keeps a history
of when it's checked and supportss I/O tracking, RAID, and disk space
independent of SMART disk capabilities. Several of my disks don't
support SMART. If his disk doesn't having a SMART monitor will do squat.

Can I run this (and any others') apps in recovery boot?

Not to my knowledge. There's very little you can do in boot recovery.
I created a recovery volume on a bootable USB stick. It has tools on it
like for Disk Recovery, Disk Utility, log analysis, and to run SMART
reports (I used the open source tool for that). It can read the SMART
info on disks that support it, but as I said my Apple HD that came with
my system doesn't support SMART so it's of no help if there are problems
with it.

I briefly messed with my work's MBP (2013; Retina)'s recovery to see how
its stuff work. I ran its Disk Utility's verify on its SSD. It didn't
even show any SMART results. I am going to assume this SSD doesn't have
any. I thought all newer drives (SSD and HDDs) have SMART stuff?
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.

Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

He should be prepared to replace the hard drive in the machine with a
new one. He may want to consider replacing it with a faster hard drive
or an SSD to increase the speed of the computer. He can restore his data
from his Time Machine backups afterwards.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Post by Jolly Roger
He should be prepared to replace the hard drive in the machine with a
new one. He may want to consider replacing it with a faster hard drive
or an SSD to increase the speed of the computer. He can restore his data
from his Time Machine backups afterwards.

Agreed if it shows problem from Disk Utility.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.
Disk Utility tried to avoid modifications that result in data loss; but
it can still happen. So it is better to run Verify first to see what
problems are there without modifying anything.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.
Disk Utility tried to avoid modifications that result in data loss; but
it can still happen. So it is better to run Verify first to see what
problems are there without modifying anything.

OK. It is a good thing I haven't told him to repair! Yikes. I will tell
him to VERIFY first. I just hope he knows how to use Disk Utility. It is
not easy for a computer newbie/illiterate. :(
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.
Disk Utility tried to avoid modifications that result in data loss; but
it can still happen. So it is better to run Verify first to see what
problems are there without modifying anything.

OK. It is a good thing I haven't told him to repair! Yikes. I will tell
him to VERIFY first. I just hope he knows how to use Disk Utility. It is
not easy for a computer newbie/illiterate. :(

You should also make sure he understands that "Verify Disk" is *not* the
same thing as "Verify Disk Permissions". He wants to do a "Verify Disk"
- not "Repair Disk", and not "Verify Disk Permissions".

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.
Disk Utility tried to avoid modifications that result in data loss; but
it can still happen. So it is better to run Verify first to see what
problems are there without modifying anything.

OK. It is a good thing I haven't told him to repair! Yikes. I will tell
him to VERIFY first. I just hope he knows how to use Disk Utility. It is
not easy for a computer newbie/illiterate. :(

You should also make sure he understands that "Verify Disk" is *not* the
same thing as "Verify Disk Permissions". He wants to do a "Verify Disk"
- not "Repair Disk", and not "Verify Disk Permissions".

Ah, good call. I missed that. I'll tell him since he hasn't answered my
e-mail yet.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
http://i.imgur.com/t9EdqFO.jpg but it is a bit small, but readable. It
looks like there is a problem with the HDD due to its I/O error. Is this
a physical problem or a data problem (run Recovery's Disk Utility?)? :(

It appears the machine is having trouble accessing the startup volume.
Run Disk Utility's "Verify Disk" function on the startup volume and see
what it shows.

And not Repair first?

Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.
Disk Utility tried to avoid modifications that result in data loss; but
it can still happen. So it is better to run Verify first to see what
problems are there without modifying anything.

OK. It is a good thing I haven't told him to repair! Yikes. I will tell
him to VERIFY first. I just hope he knows how to use Disk Utility. It is
not easy for a computer newbie/illiterate. :(

It's pretty straight-forward. Run Disk Utility, highlight the startup
volume on the left side of the window, then click the "Verify Disk"
button, as shown here:

<Loading Image...>

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
OK. It is a good thing I haven't told him to repair! Yikes. I will tell
him to VERIFY first. I just hope he knows how to use Disk Utility. It is
not easy for a computer newbie/illiterate. :(

It's pretty straight-forward. Run Disk Utility, highlight the startup
volume on the left side of the window, then click the "Verify Disk"
<http://i2.wp.com/www.macissues.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DiskUtilityFirstAid.png>

Perfect! This should help him.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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[JF Mezei]

Post by Jolly Roger
Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.

If Disk Utility is unable to read a disk block, it won't attempt to fix
it since it can't write to it.

The "repair" only applies to the file system (some lost files not in any
directories, some catalog bits not set properly etc). I suspect that
Disk Utility will not detect a few corrupt blocks inside a file.

Yes, you can run "Verify" first. However, it will take twice as long.
The problem is that if you run Verify and then Repair, you double the
number of disk operations that get done and if the disk is on its last
legs, you may not want to do this.

In fact, if you have a spare disk, I would do a disk backup on the
device (dismount the disk and do the disk image on the drive, using Disk
Utility).

Once you have the backup done, you can play with the new drive to do
Verify/repair etc.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Jolly Roger
Repair will cause Disk Utility to attempt to *modify* the disk before
you have had a chance to read the output to determine what is wrong.

If Disk Utility is unable to read a disk block, it won't attempt to fix
it since it can't write to it.

Irrelevant to my point above.

Post by JF Mezei
The "repair" only applies to the file system (some lost files not in any
directories, some catalog bits not set properly etc). I suspect that
Disk Utility will not detect a few corrupt blocks inside a file.

Again, irrelevant. Your assumption that this volume must have bad blocks
is premature and based on ignorance. We do not know what is wrong with
the volume, which is why it is best not to attempt modification which
may result in data loss.

Post by JF Mezei
Yes, you can run "Verify" first. However, it will take twice as long.

Wrong. Verify operations actually take less time than Repair operations
because repairs naturally take time to make. Without the repairs, there
is less to do, which means the operation finishes faster.

Post by JF Mezei
The problem is that if you run Verify and then Repair, you double the
number of disk operations that get done and if the disk is on its last
legs, you may not want to do this.

If you want to determine what is wrong with the volume you have to
verify it, silly. Otherwise you might as well just throw the drive away,
which is just plain silly.

Post by JF Mezei
In fact, if you have a spare disk, I would do a disk backup on the
device (dismount the disk and do the disk image on the drive, using Disk
Utility).

He already has a backup. Please pay better attention.

[nospam]

Post by Ant
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Post by Ant
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.

worth a shot but it looks like a hardware issue.

Post by Ant
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

if applecare just ended then they might fix it anyway for no cost.

[Ant]

Post by nospam

Post by Ant
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Great. I wonder what it is. I told it sounded bad if it got stuck on the
tests. :( Maybe something broke while travelling or overheated due to
the recent heat waves (100+F degrees weather). I'm waiting for his
results from his test.

Post by nospam

Post by Ant
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.

worth a shot but it looks like a hardware issue.

:(

Post by nospam

Post by Ant
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

if applecare just ended then they might fix it anyway for no cost.

OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by nospam

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing. I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow
like when he is asleep (night time now). If it is indeed stuck,
then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Great. I wonder what it is. I told it sounded bad if it got stuck on the
tests. :(

Who says it was stuck? You only let it run for one minute and 44 seconds
before you made that assumption and canceled the tests. The user
interface, as you should realize by the appearance, is very minimal,
meaning often during hardware tests it may *appear* nothing is happening
because nothing is changing on the screen. That doesn't mean nothing is
happening.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by nospam

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing. I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow
like when he is asleep (night time now). If it is indeed stuck,
then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Great. I wonder what it is. I told it sounded bad if it got stuck on the
tests. :(

Who says it was stuck? You only let it run for one minute and 44 seconds
before you made that assumption and canceled the tests. The user
interface, as you should realize by the appearance, is very minimal,
meaning often during hardware tests it may *appear* nothing is happening
because nothing is changing on the screen. That doesn't mean nothing is
happening.

No, he said it was frozen at 1 minute and 44 seconds for a long time. I
told him to let it run for hours in case it is still working like
overnight when he sleeps.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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| |o o| |
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by nospam

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing. I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow
like when he is asleep (night time now). If it is indeed stuck,
then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Great. I wonder what it is. I told it sounded bad if it got stuck on the
tests. :(

Who says it was stuck? You only let it run for one minute and 44 seconds
before you made that assumption and canceled the tests. The user
interface, as you should realize by the appearance, is very minimal,
meaning often during hardware tests it may *appear* nothing is happening
because nothing is changing on the screen. That doesn't mean nothing is
happening.

No, he said it was frozen at 1 minute and 44 seconds for a long time.

Again, that doesn't necessarily mean nothing was happening.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by nospam

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing. I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow
like when he is asleep (night time now). If it is indeed stuck,
then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that screen?

if aht failed, it have serious problems.

Great. I wonder what it is. I told it sounded bad if it got stuck on the
tests. :(

Who says it was stuck? You only let it run for one minute and 44 seconds
before you made that assumption and canceled the tests. The user
interface, as you should realize by the appearance, is very minimal,
meaning often during hardware tests it may *appear* nothing is happening
because nothing is changing on the screen. That doesn't mean nothing is
happening.

No, he said it was frozen at 1 minute and 44 seconds for a long time.

Again, that doesn't necessarily mean nothing was happening.

Bad news after about five/5 hours of the test running with his e-mailed
"Same result, frozen, the screen shot is the same as before..." comment.
:(

I'm waiting for his command+v verbose picture to see what the last
several lines show for more clues.
--
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the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
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Post by Ant
Bad news after about five/5 hours of the test running with his e-mailed
"Same result, frozen, the screen shot is the same as before..." comment.
:(

That is bad news. : (

Post by Ant
I'm waiting for his command+v verbose picture to see what the last
several lines show for more clues.

Yeah, that would be useful.

[Lewis]

Post by Ant
OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.

Ah, so he is a fool.

He can try the "It failed while I was in Europe" tack when he gets back
and that might work, but every day out of AppleCare reduces the odds
that Apple will extend AppleCare for him.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.

Ah, so he is a fool.

I don't think name calling is very productive or called for here. He may
have legitimate reasons for not bringing it to an Apple retail store -
perhaps due to travelling distance or convenience. Or maybe he's just
not in that big if a hurry and wants to ensure that he doesn't have to
hang around for a week waiting for Apple to release his machine. : )

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.

Ah, so he is a fool.

I don't think name calling is very productive or called for here. He may
have legitimate reasons for not bringing it to an Apple retail store -
perhaps due to travelling distance or convenience. Or maybe he's just
not in that big if a hurry and wants to ensure that he doesn't have to
hang around for a week waiting for Apple to release his machine. : )

Another problem is that there are no Apple retail stores where he is. I
didn't find any. Just third party authorized places. Also, he doesn't
speak their local languages. At least, his iPhone with old iOS v8.4.1
works. :P
--
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the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
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Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.

Ah, so he is a fool.

I don't think name calling is very productive or called for here. He may
have legitimate reasons for not bringing it to an Apple retail store -
perhaps due to travelling distance or convenience. Or maybe he's just
not in that big if a hurry and wants to ensure that he doesn't have to
hang around for a week waiting for Apple to release his machine. : )

Another problem is that there are no Apple retail stores where he is. I
didn't find any. Just third party authorized places. Also, he doesn't
speak their local languages. At least, his iPhone with old iOS v8.4.1
works. :P

Personally, I wouldn't bring it to anything but an actual Apple retail
store. Other places will likely want to charge for anything they do, and
sometimes can end up gouging the customer. Better to bring it into a
legitimate Apple retail store where there's a chance Apple will repair
it for free - even if it's no longer covered by warranty.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
OK, we'll try it if it is not fixed by next week. I told him to go to an
Apple store in Europe, he said no. Bah.

Ah, so he is a fool.

I don't think name calling is very productive or called for here. He may
have legitimate reasons for not bringing it to an Apple retail store -
perhaps due to travelling distance or convenience. Or maybe he's just
not in that big if a hurry and wants to ensure that he doesn't have to
hang around for a week waiting for Apple to release his machine. : )

Another problem is that there are no Apple retail stores where he is. I
didn't find any. Just third party authorized places. Also, he doesn't
speak their local languages. At least, his iPhone with old iOS v8.4.1
works. :P

Personally, I wouldn't bring it to anything but an actual Apple retail
store. Other places will likely want to charge for anything they do, and
sometimes can end up gouging the customer. Better to bring it into a
legitimate Apple retail store where there's a chance Apple will repair
it for free - even if it's no longer covered by warranty.

I agree. Plus, they probably won't speak English!
--
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[Jolly Roger]

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing.

From the photo, it appears the test had only been running for 1 minute
and 44 seconds. That's nowhere near enough time to give up on the test.
They can run quite a lot longer than that.

I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow like when he
is asleep (night time now).

He should let it run at *least* 30 minutes before he thinks about
cancelling it. Hardware tests often take a long time. For instance, with
a computer with a lot of RAM installed, RAM tests can take a long time
to complete.

If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on
that screen?

Nothing in the photo indicates RAM is an issue. He needs to let the test
run its course and see what it says when it is finished.

My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want
to see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his
screen and where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and
getting stuck after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me
so others and I can read and plan what to try next. What else to try
remotely for him? He's not a technical computer user so it needs to
be simple and share with his iPhone's camera for us.

I would be good to know if he can boot from the Apple recovery
partition, assuming he has one:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314>

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

I told him to boot it up with D key held down for its hardware test.
He ran the tests, but he said it got stuck too as shown in
http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg since the status bar and time werne't
changing.

From the photo, it appears the test had only been running for 1 minute
and 44 seconds. That's nowhere near enough time to give up on the test.
They can run quite a lot longer than that.

That is what i thinking too. Those estimated times are never accurate. I
told him to let it run overnight when he sleeps in the hotel room.

Post by Jolly Roger

I told him to let it run longer just in case it is slow like when he
is asleep (night time now).

He should let it run at *least* 30 minutes before he thinks about
cancelling it. Hardware tests often take a long time. For instance, with
a computer with a lot of RAM installed, RAM tests can take a long time
to complete.

Sleeping for a few hours of it running should be enough. ;) I don't
remember how much RAM his 13.3" 2012 MBP has. Maybe 8 GB of RAM? I
wished it showed more like a graph or addresses changing like in
Memtest86 for Linux.

Post by Jolly Roger

If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on
that screen?

Nothing in the photo indicates RAM is an issue. He needs to let the test
run its course and see what it says when it is finished.

I agree. We wait...

Post by Jolly Roger

My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want
to see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his
screen and where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and
getting stuck after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me
so others and I can read and plan what to try next. What else to try
remotely for him? He's not a technical computer user so it needs to
be simple and share with his iPhone's camera for us.

I would be good to know if he can boot from the Apple recovery
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314>

Assuming he can access it, can we run a repair on it safely with its
Disk Utility? I assume this can take hours to finish? I don't
remember what v10.8.5's Disk Utilities look like in Mac OS X. I
need to show him screen shots and what to click on to do a scan and
repair. We're not going to restore and reinstall since he is remote and
doesn't know computers. Also, it is not using FileVault or any disk
encryption.
--
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eagles." --unknown
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
I would be good to know if he can boot from the Apple recovery
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314>

Assuming he can access it, can we run a repair on it safely with its
Disk Utility?

That's not what I said. I said it would be good to know if it can *boot*
on the recovery partition. If it can boot completely on the recovery
partition, then we can rule some things out.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
I would be good to know if he can boot from the Apple recovery
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314>

Assuming he can access it, can we run a repair on it safely with its
Disk Utility?

That's not what I said. I said it would be good to know if it can *boot*
on the recovery partition. If it can boot completely on the recovery
partition, then we can rule some things out.

Ah. I thought we were going to run something in it if we can boot into
it.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
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[Ant]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
I would be good to know if he can boot from the Apple recovery
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314>

Assuming he can access it, can we run a repair on it safely with its
Disk Utility?

That's not what I said. I said it would be good to know if it can *boot*
on the recovery partition. If it can boot completely on the recovery
partition, then we can rule some things out.

Ah. I thought we were going to run something in it if we can boot into
it.

Mac OS X v10.8.5's Utilities does boot up and shows these options:
Restore from TM's backup (can't do that until he returns), Reinstall OS
X (not going to try that remotely), Get Help Online, and Disk Utility.

Should we try Disk Utility to see what's up with the HDD? It seems the
HDD is physically connected if we can get to this recovery. Maybe need
to repair the data on its HDD? I did tell my client that it might take
hours to finish so I told him to wait.
--
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eagles." --unknown
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[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant
Restore from TM's backup (can't do that until he returns), Reinstall OS
X (not going to try that remotely), Get Help Online, and Disk Utility.
Should we try Disk Utility to see what's up with the HDD? It seems the
HDD is physically connected if we can get to this recovery. Maybe need
to repair the data on its HDD? I did tell my client that it might take
hours to finish so I told him to wait.

Yes I would tell him to run the "Verify Disk" function (not the Repair
Disk function) on his startup volume then copy/paste the output to you.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant
Restore from TM's backup (can't do that until he returns), Reinstall OS
X (not going to try that remotely), Get Help Online, and Disk Utility.
Should we try Disk Utility to see what's up with the HDD? It seems the
HDD is physically connected if we can get to this recovery. Maybe need
to repair the data on its HDD? I did tell my client that it might take
hours to finish so I told him to wait.

Yes I would tell him to run the "Verify Disk" function (not the Repair
Disk function) on his startup volume then copy/paste the output to you.

And not both?
--
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[Your Name]

Post by Ant
Hi.
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?

I'm not sure about that particular model, but possibly a RAM stick has
come lose during transportation, or perhaps a small drop or even power
spike when it was plugged into the wall.

A small drop or power spike may also have damaged the hard drive.

Alternatively, it could just be trying to do some sort of system update
(although 10.8 would make that seem unlikely). Some of them can take a
while and look like they're stuck.

Post by Ant
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Sometimes an Apple Store or authorised repair centre will still repair
it for free ... it's completely at their discretion. It can help if
you're very polite. Being argumentative or pushy about AppleCare just
having ended and whining about some sort of nutty conspiracy theory (as
some loonies will do) definitely won't help.

Depending on what's actually wrong with it and where it was bought,
AppleCare can be irrelevant anyway. Some known faults are repaired free
(usually announced by a recall). The British Consumer laws mean the
equipment must be "fit for purpose", which can mean getting a free
repair even long after the original Apple Warranty period has ended.

[Ant]

Post by Your Name
I'm not sure about that particular model, but possibly a RAM stick has
come lose during transportation, or perhaps a small drop or even power
spike when it was plugged into the wall.
A small drop or power spike may also have damaged the hard drive.

Maybe. :/

Post by Your Name
Alternatively, it could just be trying to do some sort of system update
(although 10.8 would make that seem unlikely). Some of them can take a
while and look like they're stuck.

System update like what? I only remember iTunes v12.3, iOS v9, etc.

Post by Your Name

Post by Ant
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys. I basically want to
see its boot up screen show all of its technical texts on his screen and
where it gets stuck at if any. If it does show them and getting stuck
after a while, then to get a picture and send it to me so others and I
can read and plan what to try next. What else to try remotely for him?
He's not a technical computer user so it needs to be simple and share
with his iPhone's camera for us.
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Sometimes an Apple Store or authorised repair centre will still repair
it for free ... it's completely at their discretion. It can help if
you're very polite. Being argumentative or pushy about AppleCare just
having ended and whining about some sort of nutty conspiracy theory (as
some loonies will do) definitely won't help.
Depending on what's actually wrong with it and where it was bought,
AppleCare can be irrelevant anyway. Some known faults are repaired free
(usually announced by a recall). The British Consumer laws mean the
equipment must be "fit for purpose", which can mean getting a free
repair even long after the original Apple Warranty period has ended.

I remember he bought it from his university's computer store with
AppleCare. We'll see if we can get a local Apple store to check it out
even if it is ended recently.
--
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[Lewis]

Post by Ant
Hi.
As of a few hours ago after travelling far away (somewhere in Europe)
and using it briefly in his hotel room, my client's 13.3" MBP no longer
boots up fully to its updated Mac OS X v10.8.5. It gets stuck at the
gray Apple logo with its spinning indicator as shown in his blurry
iPhone photo(graph): http://i.imgur.com/uOP2XkC.jpg ... It never gets to
the login screen.
Over the phone and e-mails, we briefly tried safe mode but it showed the
same results but at slower speeds which is expected. I told him to boot
it up with D key held down for its hardware test. He ran the tests, but
he said it got stuck too as shown in http://i.imgur.com/VQ6Yy8s.jpg
since the status bar and time werne't changing. I told him to let it run
longer just in case it is slow like when he is asleep (night time now).
If it is indeed stuck, then it seems like his RAM went bad based on that
screen?
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys.

No, the next step (first step) is recover partition.

However, I do suspect there is a physical issue with the computer.

Post by Ant
What else to try remotely for him? He's not a technical computer user
so it needs to be simple and share with his iPhone's camera for us.

Very little to do remotely in this situation. He probably needs an Apple
Store.

Does he have good backups? If so, the first thing I would do is a nuke
and pave install.

1) Boot to recovery partitions
2) Format the boot partition
3) Install OS X

When that fails, take it to Apple.

No, wait, the FIRST thing is to remove any RAM that was added to the
machine and put the computer back with its original memory chips.

Post by Ant
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Not necessarily. If the window closed recently, Apple is pretty good
about extending it. The HD in one of my minis died about a week outside
of AppleCare and Apple still replaced it. Their repairs are usually
quite reasonable in cost, unless its something on the motherboard. Had I
had to pay for the HD repair it would have been, IIRC, $120. Granted, I
could have bought a HD myself for $50, but having someone else open up
the mini and replace the HD is EASILY worth $70 to me since getting to
the hard drive requires a complete disassembly of the machine, including
removing the motherboard and all connectors.

In fact, the only reason I've not put SSDs in my minis is because I
don't want to install them.

Similarly, I've had the HD replaced on my iMac under AppleCare. That
repair would have cost $300 ($260 for the 3TB drive and $40 in labor).
At the time, I could have replaced the 3TB drive for $190, but I could
never have done the labor for less than $400 in aggravation.

One other advantage to having Apple do a repair, especially one they're
doing under AppleCare, is that if anything else is wrong, it gets fixed
as well.

Many years ago I had a G3 PowerMac in for an AppleCare repair and I
ended up getting a new motherboard and new RAM in addition to the HD
they were replacing. Or maybe Optical drive.

Yesterday I went in with my iPhone 6 Plus to get the screen repaired. It
had a crack that went from the bottom of the screen in a gentle arc up
and across.

The Apple guy couldn't see an impact point, so he classified it as a
warranty repair. No charge. Also, there was no one at the tore to do the
repair, so I got a new phone.

The only drawback was that I had to wait until I got home to reinstall
9.1beta before I could restore my iCloud backup. Now I have a brand new
iPhone 6 Plus to sell to finance my new 6S Plus.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Not necessarily. If the window closed recently, Apple is pretty good
about extending it.i

Yes. Best to bring it into Apple and let them look at it. Often Apple
will go ahead and do free warranty repair on products that are no longer
in warranty. The only way to find that out is to schedule an appointment
and bring it in.

[Ant]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
My next idea is to have him do a Command and V keys.

No, the next step (first step) is recover partition.

Too late. I already showed the text results yesterday.

Post by Lewis
However, I do suspect there is a physical issue with the computer.

Even from the results I posted yesterday?

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
What else to try remotely for him? He's not a technical computer user
so it needs to be simple and share with his iPhone's camera for us.

Very little to do remotely in this situation. He probably needs an Apple
Store.

I agree if it is serious. Hopefully, he can get the fixes for free since
his AppleCare just expired since he got it in the summer of 2012.

Post by Lewis
Does he have good backups? If so, the first thing I would do is a nuke
and pave install.

Yes, Time Machine backups on an external USB2 HDD before he went on the
trip. I hope his backup is good!

Post by Lewis
1) Boot to recovery partitions
2) Format the boot partition
3) Install OS X

We'll do that when it is really bad. For now, let's see if we can repair
it.

Post by Lewis
When that fails, take it to Apple.
No, wait, the FIRST thing is to remove any RAM that was added to the
machine and put the computer back with its original memory chips.

This machine was never opened. Everything is from the original bought
from his university's computer store.

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Ironically, his AppleCare just ended after getting it over three years
ago (late summer of 2012) so it will probably be expensive to repair or
buy a new MBP if I can't fix it next week. :(

Not necessarily. If the window closed recently, Apple is pretty good
about extending it. The HD in one of my minis died about a week outside
of AppleCare and Apple still replaced it. Their repairs are usually
quite reasonable in cost, unless its something on the motherboard. Had I
had to pay for the HD repair it would have been, IIRC, $120. Granted, I
could have bought a HD myself for $50, but having someone else open up
the mini and replace the HD is EASILY worth $70 to me since getting to
the hard drive requires a complete disassembly of the machine, including
removing the motherboard and all connectors.

I hope it will be free from just expired AppleCare. ;)

Post by Lewis
In fact, the only reason I've not put SSDs in my minis is because I
don't want to install them.

Why not? I am thinking of him getting a SSD into it if the HDD is
dying/dead.

Post by Lewis
Similarly, I've had the HD replaced on my iMac under AppleCare. That
repair would have cost $300 ($260 for the 3TB drive and $40 in labor).
At the time, I could have replaced the 3TB drive for $190, but I could
never have done the labor for less than $400 in aggravation.

Ah, but isn't it much harder with a MBP since Apple made it harder to do
those things? Even battery replacements is difficult these days.

Post by Lewis
One other advantage to having Apple do a repair, especially one they're
doing under AppleCare, is that if anything else is wrong, it gets fixed
as well.

Yeah.

Post by Lewis
Many years ago I had a G3 PowerMac in for an AppleCare repair and I
ended up getting a new motherboard and new RAM in addition to the HD
they were replacing. Or maybe Optical drive.

Nice.

Post by Lewis
Yesterday I went in with my iPhone 6 Plus to get the screen repaired. It
had a crack that went from the bottom of the screen in a gentle arc up
and across.

Wow, already a crack? :(

Post by Lewis
The Apple guy couldn't see an impact point, so he classified it as a
warranty repair. No charge. Also, there was no one at the tore to do the
repair, so I got a new phone.

Nice. I wonder if APple store will have to give my client a new MBP.
Haha.

Post by Lewis
The only drawback was that I had to wait until I got home to reinstall
9.1beta before I could restore my iCloud backup. Now I have a brand new
iPhone 6 Plus to sell to finance my new 6S Plus.

Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.
--
Quote of the Week: "When I am at my lowest, that is when I see things
the clearest. It's hard to care about ants when you're soaring with
eagles." --unknown
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[Lewis]

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis
In fact, the only reason I've not put SSDs in my minis is because I
don't want to install them.

Why not? I am thinking of him getting a SSD into it if the HDD is
dying/dead.

replacing HD n mini is very fiddly and annoying.

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis
Yesterday I went in with my iPhone 6 Plus to get the screen repaired. It
had a crack that went from the bottom of the screen in a gentle arc up
and across.

Wow, already a crack? :(

already? it's a year old.

Post by Ant
Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.

weird. I've done that several times in the past, including launch day of
the 5S. they just stuck me in a corner with a power outlet.

[Ant]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis
In fact, the only reason I've not put SSDs in my minis is because I
don't want to install them.

Why not? I am thinking of him getting a SSD into it if the HDD is
dying/dead.

replacing HD n mini is very fiddly and annoying.

Oh. I hope it is not like that in a 13.3" 2012 MBP. I heard and read
that Apple made things harder with glues and tighter stuff if Apple
won't fix it due to just expired AppleCare on 9/17/2015. :(

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis
Yesterday I went in with my iPhone 6 Plus to get the screen repaired. It
had a crack that went from the bottom of the screen in a gentle arc up
and across.

Wow, already a crack? :(

already? it's a year old.

Not that old. :P

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.

weird. I've done that several times in the past, including launch day of
the 5S. they just stuck me in a corner with a power outlet.

Really? I guess my client and I had luck during that time. It was some
young man in blue shirt color back in February IIRC. It also was not an
appointment. It was crowded too during a weekday's day time! What the heck?
--
"In an ant colony, dew is a flood." --Afghan
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.

weird. I've done that several times in the past, including launch day of
the 5S. they just stuck me in a corner with a power outlet.

Really? I guess my client and I had luck during that time. It was some
young man in blue shirt color back in February IIRC. It also was not an
appointment. It was crowded too during a weekday's day time! What the heck?

Apple retail stores are almost *always* crowded. Because of that, they
aren't going to spend much time with anyone without an appointment.
That's probably why they suggested he do it at home rather than in the
store.

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.

weird. I've done that several times in the past, including launch day of
the 5S. they just stuck me in a corner with a power outlet.

Really? I guess my client and I had luck during that time. It was some
young man in blue shirt color back in February IIRC. It also was not an
appointment. It was crowded too during a weekday's day time! What the heck?

Apple retail stores are almost *always* crowded. Because of that, they
aren't going to spend much time with anyone without an appointment.
That's probably why they suggested he do it at home rather than in the
store.

Ah. I will keep that in mind. Thanks. :)
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant
Beta, eh? ;) Yeah, waiting sucks. Last time we went to the Apple retail
store to get a new iPhone, my client brought his MBP so we could
iTunes sync in the store in case there were problems. Apple guy said to
do it at home. Bah.

weird. I've done that several times in the past, including launch day of
the 5S. they just stuck me in a corner with a power outlet.

Really? I guess my client and I had luck during that time. It was some
young man in blue shirt color back in February IIRC. It also was not an
appointment. It was crowded too during a weekday's day time! What the heck?

Apple retail stores are almost *always* crowded. Because of that, they
aren't going to spend much time with anyone without an appointment.
That's probably why they suggested he do it at home rather than in the
store.

Ah. I will keep that in mind. Thanks. :)

Any time you want to bring something in for service, it's best to start
here, follow the prompts, and use the web site to make an appointment
ahead of time:

<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

[Ant]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
Apple retail stores are almost *always* crowded. Because of that, they
aren't going to spend much time with anyone without an appointment.
That's probably why they suggested he do it at home rather than in the
store.

Ah. I will keep that in mind. Thanks. :)

Any time you want to bring something in for service, it's best to start
here, follow the prompts, and use the web site to make an appointment
<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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[David Ritz]

NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

On Sunday, 27 September 2015 22:45 -0500,

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

It may be you or your location. I can get a Genius bar appointment
for a Mac appointment about thirteen hours from now, if I wanted one.

[Ant]

Post by David Ritz

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

It may be you or your location. I can get a Genius bar appointment
for a Mac appointment about thirteen hours from now, if I wanted one.

Lucky. Where is that store?
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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| |o o| |
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[David Ritz]

NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

On Sunday, 27 September 2015 23:22 -0500,

Post by Ant

Post by David Ritz

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

It may be you or your location. I can get a Genius bar appointment
for a Mac appointment about thirteen hours from now, if I wanted one.

Lucky. Where is that store?

It's a fifteen minute drive from my current coordinates. It's about
an hour longer wait, for a Genius Bar appointment, at the Apple Store
that's about twenty five minutes away.

I guess I'm just lucky.

[nospam]

Post by Ant

Post by David Ritz

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

It may be you or your location. I can get a Genius bar appointment
for a Mac appointment about thirteen hours from now, if I wanted one.

Lucky. Where is that store?

unless he lives near you, what difference would that make?

check all of the stores near you and see which ones has something
available the soonest.

[Michael Vilain]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
Apple retail stores are almost *always* crowded. Because of that, they
aren't going to spend much time with anyone without an appointment.
That's probably why they suggested he do it at home rather than in the
store.

Ah. I will keep that in mind. Thanks. :)

Any time you want to bring something in for service, it's best to start
here, follow the prompts, and use the web site to make an appointment
<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

[nospam]

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.

i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I usually get them within the same day here. I wouldn't dare try going
without an appointment though, because the store is always jam packed.

[nospam]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I usually get them within the same day here. I wouldn't dare try going
without an appointment though, because the store is always jam packed.

i've had same day appointments before, sometimes as soon as how long it
takes to drive to the store, however, i haven't seen that in a couple
of years.

[Lewis]

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I went in on the 23rd to get my phone replaced without an appointment. I
had to wait about 15 minutes.

This store is usually very busy, but this was mid afternoon, midweek.

When my wife broke her phone dropping it in the parking lot it took over
4 hours total to see someone, give them the phone, get it repaired, and
get it back.

[Ant]

Post by Lewis

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I went in on the 23rd to get my phone replaced without an appointment. I
had to wait about 15 minutes.
This store is usually very busy, but this was mid afternoon, midweek.
When my wife broke her phone dropping it in the parking lot it took over
4 hours total to see someone, give them the phone, get it repaired, and
get it back.

That was without appointment and under AppleCare?
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Lewis]

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I went in on the 23rd to get my phone replaced without an appointment. I
had to wait about 15 minutes.
This store is usually very busy, but this was mid afternoon, midweek.
When my wife broke her phone dropping it in the parking lot it took over
4 hours total to see someone, give them the phone, get it repaired, and
get it back.

That was without appointment and under AppleCare?

Both, yes.

[Ant]

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by nospam

Post by Michael Vilain

Post by Ant
Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

That's SOP. There are two Apple stores in my area (Palo Alto) and
they're both VERY busy. If something need to be taken in for repair,
expect a wait. If you're not a corporate customer, expect to wait.

it's not sop at all. some stores are busy and some aren't.
i've been able to get appointments within a day, usually.

I went in on the 23rd to get my phone replaced without an appointment. I
had to wait about 15 minutes.
This store is usually very busy, but this was mid afternoon, midweek.
When my wife broke her phone dropping it in the parking lot it took over
4 hours total to see someone, give them the phone, get it repaired, and
get it back.

That was without appointment and under AppleCare?

Both, yes.

Interesting. I wonder if Apple gives AppleCare customers higher
priorities.
--
Quote of the Week: Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst
the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He,
therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that
tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set
on fire. Allah sent him a revelation: 'Wouldn't it have been sufficient
to burn a single ant (that bit you)?'" --Translation of Sahih Bukhari,
Book 54, Number 536
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[nospam]

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis

Post by Ant

Post by Lewis
When my wife broke her phone dropping it in the parking lot it took over
4 hours total to see someone, give them the phone, get it repaired, and
get it back.

That was without appointment and under AppleCare?

Both, yes.

Interesting. I wonder if Apple gives AppleCare customers higher
priorities.

not for making an appointment. in fact, the system has no way to know.
you just click on a time slot and give a description of the issue.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Ant

Post by Jolly Roger
Any time you want to bring something in for service, it's best to start
here, follow the prompts, and use the web site to make an appointment
<http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/>

Thanks. Is it me or they have no openings for like a week? :/

It's different for each store, and is based on how busy they are at the
time.